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Anderson Cooper 360

News/Business. (2010)

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CNN

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mpeg2video

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Michigan 17, Us 14, Hayes 8, Chris Armstrong 8, Mr. Shirvell 7, Washington 5, Georgia 5, Pakistan 5, Anderson 4, Dr. Petit 4, Andrew Shirvell 4, Mumbai 4, Grandma 4, Beth Karas 3, Steven Hayes 3, Randi 3, Jeffrey Toobin 3, Satan 3, Waga 2, Joe 2,
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  CNN    Anderson Cooper 360    News/Business.  (2010)  

    September 29, 2010
    2:00 - 3:00am EDT  

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thanks for joining us, everyone. picture this, you wake up one day and discover a public official is targeting you, he singled you out by name and set up a blog dedicated solely to making vicious allegations against you, calling you a nazi, all that for starters. weird thing is you don't even know the guy and you're not even out of college yet. sound like a nightmare? it's happening to a college student in michigan and tonight we confront the public official behind it. we're going to ask him, why this kid and how does he justify targeting him?
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we're keeping them honest. also breaking news, growing concerns about a possible al qaeda commando attack with gunmen on city streets storming hotels, shooting anyone in their path. if you remember the attacks on mumbai, this would be the sequel. we've got the latest where officials fear it could happen and where the killers could be coming from. and later the defense rested in the trial of the two men accused of the horrific home invasion and murder in connecticut. overwhelming evidence against them. we'll show you what kind of defense they put on today and where the case goes from here. that's our "crime and punishment" segment tonight. we begin with keeping them honest. with a law enforcement official who seems to be waging a one-man war against a college student. a public servant, an assistant attorney general in the state of michigan, charged with upholding the law. in his spare time, however, he's targeting a single individual who's committed no crime with an ongoing campaign of vitriol and internet attacks. i want to bring you over to the wall here and show you the people involved in this story. it's one of the stranger stories we've reported on recently. this guy here on the left is andrew shirvell, assistant
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attorney general for the state of michigan. on the right is a young man named chris armstrong, the object of mr. shirvell's considerable attention. chris armstrong is student body president of the university of michigan, he was elected by his fellow students and also the first openly gay student body president at the school and that is what got mr. shirvell's attention. shortly after armstrong was elected student body president, andrew shirvell set up a blog devoted entirely to tracking and attacking armstrong. you're looking at the opening page of the blog. here's a closer look at the picture that's on the opening page. this say picture of mr. armstrong with the word resign. a gay flag with a nazi swastika in there over it. here's another posting, chris armstrong says the privileged pervert. there's another page here, this is from the blog of mr. shirvell, it says outrage alert, armstrong engages in sexual
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escapades at churches and children's playgrounds. shirvell calls him a recruiter for the cult that is homosexuality and admits to protesting outside his home. he also accuses armstrong of joining a racist campus organization because, quote, that's exactly what most affluent white homosexual males like him are, racist and elitist to the core. the organization is called the order of angel. it's an honor society that once used native american artifacts in meetings but apparently doesn't anymore and counts among its members, former president gerald ford and others. now, apparently mr. shirvell seems to believe there's a sinister aspect to all this. he also on his blog carefully tracks facebook pages and comments of armstrong and his friends, attacking them and even his friends' family members. again, just remember, this is a public official, a grownup, fixating on a 21-year-old college student, dedicated a blog to vilifying him, scouring his facebook page, making unproven allegations. you might wonder how this man is
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still employed in the attorney general's office in michigan. he's a civil servant and allowed to express his own opinions in his spare time. so far the attorney general has taken no action against him, the attorney general, mike cox, did release a statement. mr. shirvell's personal opinions are his and his alone and do not reflect the views of the michigan department of attorney general but his immaturity and lack of judgment outside the office are clear. that's from mike cox, michigan attorney general. now under michigan civil service rules, shirvell can't be fired for his political views but can be let go for conduct unbecoming a state official. that hasn't happened. we asked chris armstrong to come on the program. he declined. he's pursuing legal action against mr. shirvell. mr. shirvell was more than happy to speak about his months long focus on chris armstrong. i spoke to him a short time ago. >> i want to go over some of the stuff you have on your blog. there's a picture of chris armstrong with a nazi swastika near his face. there's another with the words racist, elitist liar on his face.
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you accuse him of being satan's representative in the student assembly. you're a state official, this is a college student. what are you doing? >> well, anderson, basically if you've been involved in political campaigns before, you know all sorts of stuff happens and this is just another tactic bringing awareness to what chris really stands for. >> this is not some national figure, this is a guy who's running a student council. >> well, anderson, as a private citizen and as a university of michigan alum, i care because this is my university, and i wasn't the only first person to criticize chris. in fact, long before i started the blog a couple of weeks before that, the alliance defense fund, a well-known legal christian foundation put out an alert about chris. so i'm not the only person that has criticized chris, and i'm not the first person to criticize chris.
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>> but you are the only person -- you are the only person running this blog which is putting nazi swastikas on this guy. you're a grown adult. does that seem appropriate to you? >> like i said, this is a political campaign. this is nothing personal against chris. i don't know chris -- >> what do you mean it's nothing personal? you're outside his house, you're videotaping his house, you're shouting him down at public events, you're calling him satan's representative on the student council, you're attacking his parents, his friends' parents. you can't say it's not personal. >> well, in any political campaign, you have to raise awareness and issues, and that's one way of doing it is by protesting. >> well of course you're free to express whatever you want, but i guess i just -- in terms of sure decency, do you really think for an assistant attorney general going after a college student because he's gay is appropriate? >> i'm doing this as a private citizen off work time as a university of michigan alum. we're quibbling over tactics, we're not quibbling over
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substance. the substance of the matter is, anderson, chris armstrong is a radical homosexual activist who got elected partly funded by the gay and lesbian victory fund to promote a very deeply radical agenda at the university of michigan. and he wants to do that by -- >> his biggest issues were extending the hours of the cafeteria and lowering tuition as well as some gender housing issues. >> no, that's not correct. that's not correct, anderson. his biggest issue is gender neutral housing. what we're talking about is anybody, any man or woman wanting to choose to live together. that's a radical redefinition of gender norms and i think that's -- >> you say this is a political campaign. a, you're not running for any political campaign, nor is he. he's already the student council president. he's not a national figure and you're putting swastikas on his face and saying he's satan's representative. that seems like below the belt campaigning. i don't know what campaigns you're used to being involved with, but don't you think that's beyond the pale?
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>> well, no, i don't think it's beyond the pale. like i said, i think you're -- i sense a lot of anger in your voice, anderson, and i don't understand where that's coming from. as an astute observer of political campaigns, you know for many years, you know that these kind of tactics are par for the course. >> it appears, though, you're obsessed with this young gay man. i've read all your blog postings. you're like perusing his facebook, his friends' facebook pages, you're making completely unwarranted accusations, unproven accusations, based on what you're gleaning from his facebook pages. >> excuse me, anderson, who said they were unwarranted and not true? chris has never come out and denied anything. there's a reason why he isn't giving interviews, and that's because he can't defend what's on the blog. he -- i mean, i stand by what's on the blog. i've gotten stuff from other third party sources -- >> you stand by that he's satan's representative on the student council? you stand by that?
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>> excuse me, anderson, that isn't on the blog, that's taken from another posting. somewhere on the internet i may have put out -- >> so you don't stand by that? >> that's my opinion. >> okay, i'm just asking you if you stand by it. your boss, mike cox, put out a statement saying while he recognizes your right to express opinions your, quote, immature and lack of judgment outside the office are clear. do you worry at all that your boss thinks you're immature and lack judgment? >> anderson, i agreed to do this interview by stating i wouldn't make any comments regarding my employment. >> i was reading the criteria the state of michigan uses to identify a cyberbully, someone who uses technology to harass, embarrass, intimidate or stalk someone else and lists the types of content a cyberbully may send, including vulgar and argumentative messages, cruel and offensive, insulting remarks. under that definition, aren't you a cyberbully? >> no, absolutely not, and that's a total
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mischaracterization from the local news reporter, ross jones, that did the piece on me who was very biased. >> i don't know who that is. i've read the state's definition -- >> that's where you're getting this -- >> no, i've read the state's definition, a pamphlet the state hands out, and that's the definition. it seems to apply to you. >> well, i don't meet the definition. i've never contacted chris, i've never spoken to o him. >> you've -- >> a cyberbully is someone -- >> you stood outside his house and videotaped. >> i do not follow him around. i protest with a sign. that's exercising my first amendment rights, anderson. that's not following anybody around. i don't live anywhere near to ann arbor. i've been down there maybe three or four times since i've started the blog. that's -- >> have you ever been outside his house and videotaped? >> i've protested outside his house, yes. >> do you consider yourself a bigot?
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>> absolutely not. i'm a christian citizen, exercising my first amendment rights. i have no problem with the fact that chris is homosexual, i have a problem with the fact that he is advancing a very radical agenda. >> i bring up the bigot question because merriam's dictionary defines bigot as a, quote, person on stin nantly or regards person who regards or treats a member of a group with hatred or intolerance. labeling the student a representative of satan, picketing his house, certainly makes you appear intolerant at the very least. it seems like you hate this guy because he's gay. >> well, anderson, that's your spin on it. the real bigot here is chris armstrong. i don't have any hate in my body at all. i recognize that chris is a child of god. i'm, however -- just because he's homosexual doesn't mean he gets a free pass and we can't criticize him.
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that does not make you a bigot to criticize somebody or somebody's agenda. he's a political figure, anderson. >> you're expected to uphold the law as equally and impartially for all michigan residents. in your work, how can you do that if you openly display attitudes toward this guy like this, if you're calling this guy a nazi, if you're calling this guy satan's representative on the student council? would a gay person feel comfortable being offended by you? >> anderson, i stated i wouldn't talk about any aspects of my employment. i have a right as an alum and as a private citizen to criticize him in my after hours work. >> no one's questioning your right, just your judgment. andrew shirvell, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. >> that was assistant attorney general for the state of michigan. let's bring in jeffrey toobin. does this seem bizarre to you? >> it's really bizarre. but this is not really about andrew shirvell, bizarre though he is. this is about mike cox. >> the actual attorney general.
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>> why hasn't he fired this guy? >> he says he's a civil servant, he has the right to say what he wants to say in his spare time. >> the supreme court has said over and over again that public employees do not have the same free speech rights as other people. you have a right to express yourself, you don't have a right to a job that the taxpayers pay for. people have been fired from public jobs for far less egregious statements than this one. so for mike cox to hide behind the first amendment and to hide behind the civil service law, that really doesn't wash. the idea that the taxpayers are paying this guy, who spouts such poison and harasses -- >> he says he's doing it in his spare time. >> doesn't matter. it doesn't matter under the law whether it's at 5:05 that you put the swastika on this kid's -- you know, face. it is that distinction is meaningless under the law. >> in doing interviews i try to put myself in someone else's
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shoes, i'm thinking rough and tumble of a political campaign, but this is not a political campaign. he's not running for anything and this kid -- he's not a kid, he's 21, this guy has already won office, elected student council. >> this is a grown man, a representative who goes into court every day on behalf of the people of the state of michigan, and -- i forgot his name. >> shirvell. >> no, the other -- >> armstrong. >> armstrong. he is a college student who is involved in a student -- you know, who won a student race which is now over. this is not the kind of first amendment activity that a public employee -- >> where is the line? there's free speech and everyone has a right to their opinion and express it. there's also slander and character assassination and libel. where is the -- >> this is why armstrong has a lawyer and isn't talking to you, because -- >> you think he has a case? >> he may well have a case for harassment, for some sort of
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tort where shirvell has violated his rights. the cyberbullying law that you -- >> which in michigan there is no cyberbullying law yet. >> there is a federal -- federal law on this subject, certainly there will be grounds for a lawyer to call up shirvell and say, you stop or -- >> why do you think the attorney general hasn't let him go? >> i think there's a lot of politics involved here. mike cox is the first republican attorney general in michigan since the 1950s. he's very conservative, he's very tied in with certain evangelical groups -- >> shirvell helped run his campaign. >> right, who are very associated with family values and certainly not associated with gay rights. to fire shirvell who is a political ally of his would be difficult. that i think is something that's very much a part of this story. >> it's a fascinating case and we'll continue to follow it. jeffrey toobin, thank you very much. let us know what you think at
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home. join the live chat right now at ac360.com. next, breaking news about a terror threat that may explain evacuating the eiffel tower. remember, that happened for a second time. it could involve plotters from the same german city where some of the 9/11 hijackers planned their attacks. this breaking news tonight. and a democratic congressman caught giving scholarship money for needy kids, giving it to his own relatives and those of his staffers. he doesn't want to talk about it so today we tried to track him down. see what happened. and launched behindtheburner.com. we create and broadcast content and then distribute it across tv, the web, and via mobile. i even use the web to get paid. with acceptpay from american express open, we now invoice advertisers and receive payments digitally. and i get paid on average three weeks faster. booming is never looking for a check in the mail. because it's already in my email. i love my grandma.
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breaking news to tell you about, new rumblings of terror threats a lot like the bloodbath in mumbai, gunmen hitting hotels and other tourist spots, possibly banks and economic assets.
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could explain why paris officials have evacuated the eiffel tower twice in the past couple days. a federal official telling us, quote, the volume seems to be turned up on a threat out of europe. some of it apparently coming from at least one german in custody. the intelligence pointing to using people with western passports in an attack. let's talk about it now with former white house homeland security adviser fran townsend and cnn national security advisor peter bergen. there are hundreds of threats monitored every single day. why this, why now? >> well, interesting, anderson. we see from reports now in talking to intelligence and law enforcement officials they have an individual in custody. we think in afghanistan. who, we're told, is providing really important information. they take that information, they
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share it with their western european allies like germany, like france and i've been told by one senior official they've gotten good cooperation. but the pieces fit and that's why this is different. that's why you see the french reacting and closing or evacuating the eiffel tower. they're looking now for keys, and they're particularly focused on these soft targets. one person said to me, you know what? we've had a lot of success across two administrations of hardening this sort of government targets and the big ones. so now it really points to the vulnerability of soft targets, resorts, banks, museums, places where large groups of people congregate and you can have mass casualties and real chaos by one individual. you don't need a whole team anymore. >> it's also not common to have the director of national intelligence comment on a threat. >> that's right. i mean, the minute clapper came out, i think peter will -- had the same experience, people are very angry about the leak. and i think director clapper really wanted to send the signal that he didn't want leaks. the problem was, what that resulted in is people like me and peter getting lots of phone calls from lots of people saying, geez, we're really angry. this is a really important case. and, of course, journalists ask
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more questions and that served to confirm it. >> peter, there's been an uptick in unmanned drone attacks in along the pakistan/afghan border. is this in any way related? >> you know, it may well be. and certainly, you know, we've seen 20 drone attacks, at least 20 already this month, which if you think -- in the last year of the bush administration there were only 34. >> so there have been 20 drone attacks in the last month, but only 34 in the last year of the bush administration. that's an amazing parallel. >> right. right. in fact there have been double the number of drone attacks under obama than the entire eight years of the bush administration. so this thing is being ramped up dramatically. there are a number of reasons for that, one is the bombs are smaller, the intelligence is better, the civilian casualty rate, there's a debate about it but there's no doubt it's going down. some officials say as low as 1% or 2%, from the public record it looks more like 10%. but either way civilian casualties are going down, i
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think the floods interrupted the drone strikes for a while because the bases where some of the drones have flown from are in pakistan. the floods have receded. that might account for the uptick, and then of course the plot or, you know, alleged plot may -- one way to kind of interrupt it is to increase the pressure on the area in north waziristan where many of these militants are based. >> fran, when you look at the mumbai attacks, it wasn't just -- people said, look, this is kind of a new way of attacking. it's basically a handful of commandos trained with relatively light weapons, grenades, you know, machine guns and the like. they basically held the city of mumbai hostage for several days and we saw the same kind of techniques, if memory serves me correct, i think on an embassy attack in kabul i think the indian embassy and i think also in pakistan there was an attack of a few gunmen basically moving in and taking over a facility and kind of holding authorities at bay. this seems like kind of a new way of attacking that's very effective.
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>> that's exactly right, anderson. and if you think about it, what al qaeda needs without having had a big attack on the homeland, they need something that will draw attention to their cause again. it serves to recruit, it serves to fund raise and bring attention that they're really still viable. i don't have any doubt that based on talking to the counterterrorism officials they're really concerned about this, and this is a really difficult method of attack to defeat. we can't harden every hotel, every resort, every museum. so officials really require very specific, you know, tactical intelligence to defeat this sort of thing. and they're unlikely to get that in a timely way. >> peter, we see one gunman in the discovery headquarters a couple weeks ago who obviously didn't have a terrorist agenda but created terror. a handful of gunmen in multiple sites in one city in one day can wreak havoc. >> yeah, these so-called attacks where you recruit people who are effectively going to commit suicide in the course of the
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attack and they know that going in. if you go back to the mumbai attacks, there was 60 hours of coverage around the world by cnn as well drawing tremendous attention to the cause of these attackers, and that is something as you mentioned as being learned in other attacks. we saw an attack on the ghq, the headquarters of the pakistani military which exactly followed this about a year ago, attracting a lot of news attention in pakistan. so this idea is out there, and apparently the person in custody is giving information that is suggesting that these attacks may happen also in at least maybe in europe and perhaps elsewhere. >> we've been told by a law enforcement source that osama bin laden has signed off on the plan, what they describe as a mumbai-style attack. does that sound possible to you? >> i mean, yeah, it's possible. he's obviously not in very active communication with a lot of people, but -- >> but that style of attack is certainly something that's much more doable than some massive
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attack. >> yeah, i mean, provided you recruit the people. i wouldn't underestimate, still you've got to find several people willing to commit suicide. al qaeda has a lot of those, and you've got to infiltrate them to where they're going to go. we've had 100 to 150 westerners showing up in the pakistan's tribal reasons for al qaeda is located. many of them are german. we have seen many germans pop up in al qaeda affiliated propaganda videos. that is what of concern right now. >> fran townsend and peter bergen, thanks for your expertise. up next, we try to find a congressman to ask him about giving scholarship money to his own stepdaughter and niece. and the defense makes its case in the connecticut home invasion and murder trial. we talk about where the trial goes from here.
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well, when republican candidate christine o'donnell suddenly stopped talking to the national media, we made sure to point that out. so it's only fair to point out the same thing when democratic congressman refuses to talk about a scandal he is embroiled in. we promise to keep you updated on it. we're talking about georgia democratic congressman sanford bishop. he was caught giving congressional black caucus is foundation scholarship money to be given to needy kids to his stepdaughter and his wife's niece. he says he's done nothing wrong and reportedly repaid the money. but friday four more questionable scholarships have surfaced, all four went to people with close connections to congressman bishop and his family. the congressman claims the awards met the rules of the congressional black caucus foundation. an attorney for the foundation that oversees the scholarship fund says it was established to benefit disadvantaged, needy kids. so we'd like to ask congressman bishop how that squares with
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what he did. but he declined our invitation on friday. we tried again yesterday and his office told us he'd be campaigning in georgia today. when we called the campaign office they said he didn't have campaign events, that he was in washington. we called another staffer in washington who said, nope, he's actually back in georgia. you can see where this is going. when joe johns called back again to point out all the mixed signals, here's what he found. >> calling tim turner now, the sanford campaign manager. >> tim turner speaking. >> hey, tim, it's joe johns with cnn, how are you doing? >> all right. how are you doing, sir? >> good, good. we're doing a story on trying to catch up with the congressman. i was just wondering if you could tell us whether the congressman is in georgia or in washington, and if there's a chance we can maybe interview him. >> he's in washington and i don't know what his schedule is today. >> now that we know he's in washington, perhaps we'll go over to the capitol and see if we can get ahold of him. fourth floor. congressman bishop's office is 2429.
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we're going to go and check it. hello, anybody home? is congressman bishop around? hey. looking for mr. mccray or congressman bishop. you think he'll talk to us later? >> his schedule is fully booked for the rest of the day. >> has he talked to anybody about the scholarship business? >> he is unavailable and -- >> ask him to give me a call, will you? thanks a lot. so there's simply no way of telling whether congressman bishop is here. his staff says he's not available but not volunteering any information on where he might be. the staff says he's working all day but there are no votes on the house floor. it's pretty clear congressman bishop doesn't want to talk to us. >> we just want to ask some very basic questions, joe. i guess you can't just camp out at his office, huh? >> you can't camp out inside his office, you can't camp out outside his office.
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there are a lot of rules to covering the congress, and it's the congress, of course, that makes the rules. so we're stuck. >> no doubt about that. he's held this seat for almost two decades. is this hurting his race? he's in a race right now, obviously. >> he's definitely getting attacked with it, and he's got a clear advantage. it's a majority or almost majority african-american district. he's running against a guy named mike cowen who's a state representative. the thing about this is right around april to june, cowen got a whole lot of money infused into his campaign and now he's got some tea party support. so bishop is a lot more vulnerable than he was last time around, anderson. >> again, we extend the invitation to the congressman. any night. we're around. we're here every night. joe, thanks very much. we're following several other important stories, randi kaye joins us with the "360" bulletin. randi? >> reporter: an event in albuquerque, new mexico, billed as a talk on the economy turned
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personal for president obama today when a woman in the crowd asked mr. obama about his christian faith. >> you know, i'm a christian by choice. so i came to my christian faith later in life. and it was because the precepts of jesus christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life i would want to lead. >> former president jimmy carter will remain at a cleveland, ohio, hospital tonight where he's being treated for an upset stomach. he was taken there after getting sick on an airplane and missed a book signing in that city. in afghanistan, an emotional speech from embattled president hamid karzai, with his voice breaking, his eyes filled with tears, karzai said, quote, i have pain in my heart. he called on taliban militants to put down their weapons and says he fears one day his son may be forced to flee the country. police in utah are investigating the alleged
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polygamous marriage of the stars of tlc's new reality show, "sister wives." in the show one man is thought to be married to four women. in utah, anyone found guilty of being married to more than one person could face up to five years in prison. and what's so strange about this is they've apparently been living this way for quite some time. now the officials feel that going on television is putting it in their face, so now they're going after them. >> that will be the second season. very special episode. >> such drama. >> randi we'll check in with you later on. testimony wrapped up in the connecticut home invasion/murder trial but not before a prison guard told jurors what he overheard steven hayes, one of the accused, tell another inmate about the murder of jennifer hawke-petit. and speaking out publicly, calling the pastor a monster, we'll hear what else the accuser has to say.
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crime and punishment tonight, both the prosecution and defense rested their cases today in the connecticut home invasion/murder trial but not before the jury heard more testimony. steven hayes is accused of murdering jennifer hawke-petit and her two daughters in 2007. a prison guard testified that hayes told another inmate that his accused accomplice joshua komisarjevsky to kill petit and testified hayes told the inmate he thought dr. petit may have been in on the plot to collect insurance money. no evidence about that, though. more on the testimony in a moment. the most chilling video shows jennifer hawke-petit withdrawing $15,000 at the bank at the demand of the captors before her murder. police testified hayes took her to the bank while komisarjevsky held the family hostage at home. the bank teller called 911. >> we have a lady in our bank right now who says that her husband and children are being
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held at their house. the people are in a car outside the bank. she is getting $15,000. that if the police are told, they will kill her children and the husband. she is petrified. >> authorities also released surveillance video from a gas station where one of the suspects allegedly purchased $10 worth of gas that would be used to burn down the petit's home. jennifer hawke-petit was sexually assaulted and strangled, one of her daughters also sexually assaulted died from smoke inhalation. dr. petit survived the attack, steven hayes could get the death penalty if convicted. joshua komisarjevsky will be tried at a later date. we'll talk about jeffrey toobin and beth karas. she was in the courtroom today. beth, the testimony ended today, not before the prison guard testified that he heard one of the suspects tell another inmate that he thought dr. petit might have been in on the crime to get insurance money, but there's no evidence of that. >> oh, no. that was investigated and there's absolutely no evidence of it, and the family reacted --
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dr. petit reacted angrily outside of court today and said he wasn't even going to dignify it with a response. there is no evidence. he was very severely wounded. he was tied up in the basement, and able to free his hands and hop out of the basement and rolled to a neighbor's home and yell for help. >> in fact he's the one to motivate the police moving in because that was the first indication anything was going wrong. basically, the defense for this guy, for hayes, seems to be pointing the finger of the real responsibility at the other co-defendant. >> that's the only defense because even hayes' lawyers are not asserting that he was not a participant, that he was somehow innocent. this is really all a setup for the penalty phase. they are not contesting the guilt. >> they're trying to avoid the death penalty. >> they're trying to avoid the death penalty. after he is convicted which he
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presumably will be next week, they'll have a penalty phase, and that's when the defense will really develop their theme that hayes was just a patsy, a moron, a follower, and komisarjevsky is the guy who really created the circumstances that led to this horrible, horrible murder. now, whether the jury buys it, weather -- you know, this is a very tough case for the defense to say the least because it's just unspeakable. >> the prison guard testified that hayes said that he killed mrs. hawke-petit when he saw the police cruisers outside the house but she might have already been dead at that point, right? >> the evidence is she did not die from smoke inhalation, she was strangled to death and he is the one accused of strangling her to death. he probably killed her long before the fire was set, or at least minutes before the fire was set. >> it's worth mentioning that these jailhouse snitches, these people who say that people confessed to them, they are notoriously unreliable, particularly in cases where they're the only evidence. here there's just an abundance of evidence.
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but the fact that the jailhouse snitch's testimony doesn't line up with the physical evidence in the case is not surprising. because, you know, whether hayes actually said that or not and -- is i think a open question. >> the fact that they bought, or that one of these guys bought gasoline beforehand and had gasoline there, i mean, it seems obviously to indicate they planned to kill these people or at least burn the house down. >> they say initially they were going to steal money and jewelry and tie everyone up and leave. they put pillowcases over the little girls' heads, they didn't want to be identified. but they didn't find a lot of money and not too many jewels in the house and they decided when they found a bank account with $30,000 or so in it, they would wait until morning when the bank opened and take mrs. hawke-petit to the bank and that's what they did. they ended up killing their prisoners because they could have identified them.
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when the police came and realized everything happened at once at the end, that dr. petit had escaped from the basement, the police have already formed a perimeter but haven't rushed into the place, didn't know exactly what they were encountering, and they set the place on fire, all at the same time and literally ran into the arms of -- rammed into the cars of the police outside. >> beth, you've been in a lot of courtrooms for a lot of years and you were saying just before the break how tough it is going into this courtroom every single day and hearing this testimony. >> this case really affected me. i was petrified about going into the courtroom because i'm so haunted by this story. and i've been hardened for 2 1/2 decades by being in the criminal justice system, as an assistant da and reporter. cases involving children who are killed really, really affect me. this one, i wasn't sleeping last night. >> yeah. it just is a shocking case. beth karas, appreciate it. jeff, closing arguments are later in the week. >> friday, presumably a verdict
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relatively soon next week. and then, if it's guilty, as, you know, it almost certainly will be, the -- then there will be a penalty phase. that's why the gasoline is so significant. because it suggests premeditation. and premeditation is very important part of a death penalty consideration. >> even if they got the death penalty, it would be years before they're executed. >> connecticut has a death penalty on the books but there have hardly been any executions for 20 years. there was e. but -- so this is a beginning of a very long legal process, if the jury even sentences them. >> beth karas, jeff toobin, thanks. up next, one of the men suing pastor eddie long speaking out for the first time. his message for bishop long and why he has no reason to lie. and why gloria estefan climbed out of a window at the miami dolphins game. ♪ client comes in and they have a box. and inside that box is their financial life. people wake up and realize i better start doing something.
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thanks for watching "360."
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tonight an accuser of bishop eddie long is speaking out.
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the prominent georgia pastor is facing sexual misconduct lawsuits filed by four men. who accused long of using scripture and church money to sexually seduce them. long released a statement saying the charges against him are false and he spoke at his church sunday vowing to fight the claims in court. atlanta tv station waga did an interview with jamal parris now 23. he told waga he joined the new birth missionary baptist church when he was 14 and said long wanted him to call him daddy and trust him with spiritual guidance. in his own words, here's what he said about the influence long had over him. >> so all the media and the press and the rest of the people around the city or around the country look at us, how can a grown man let another man touch him. this man manipulated us from childhood. this was our father and we loved him. >> he talked about the lasting impact of the alleged sexual misconduct. >> i cannot get the sound of his voice out of my head.
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and i cannot forget the smell of his cologne and i cannot forget the way he made me cry many nights when i drove in his cars on the way home, not being able to take enough showers to wipe the smell of him off my body. >> bishop long said he will fight the allegations in court. mr. parris said this as well. >> that man cannot look me in the eye and tell me we did not live this pain, while you sit in front of the church and tell them that you categorically deny it. you cannot say that to our face and you know this. you are not a man, you are a monster. >> plenty of other stories we're following. tonight randi kaye is back with the 360 bulletin. >> violence at the university of texas, austin, officials say a 19-year-old sophomore randomly fired shots on campus this morning from an ak-47 assault weapon before killing himself. no one else was hurt. his motive is not known. an eighth person has died in connection with the gas line explosion and fire earlier this
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month in san bruno, california. 37 homes were completely destroyed in the fire. a federal investigation into the cause of the pipeline rupture is now under way. meanwhile, california's request for federal disaster aid has been rejected. actress lindsay lohan is back in rehab. she was sent to jail last week in los angeles after failing a drug test but was released after posting a $300,000 bail. back in august, lohan spent three weeks in a court-ordered rehab program. >> and we know that old saying about necessity being the mother of invention? take a look at this. that's singer gloria estefan. she was forced to climb out a window and into an adjoining suite at the miami dolphins game sunday. she was set to introduce enrique iglesias at halftime but her door was locked and she couldn't get out. firefighters, locksmiths, security there, they all tried, couldn't pry it open, so that's what she had to do. >> wow, that's interesting. >> she had to even take off her
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high heeled shoes and then race across the field. >> she was a good sport. tonight's shot hits close to home for folks working in a news room. when you work in a newsroom, have you to remember there are live cameras around often, which could catch you, you know, digging for stuff. so we found this on youtube during a live shot of this news program. see what's going on behind the anchorwoman's shoulders. and wait for it, wait for it, boom. there you go. >> oh, the payoff. >> there's the payoff. let's take a closer look now. let's light that one up. unaware she's clearly on camera. oh, hello. hi. yes. >> now i get what you meant by digging for stuff. >> and wait, and wait for it and -- should i -- yeah. boom. >> oh. >> yes. yeah. >> wow. that's brutal. >> i feel so bad for this poor person, though, like can you imagine now everyone -- i mean,
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yeah. >> i hope she's not watching. i kind of hope she is, i kind of hope she isn't. >> put your hands down. stop touching the nose area. >> no. >> all right, randi. something to think about tonight. that's it. thanks for watching. see you tomorrow night. larry king is next. oadcast contt and then distribute it across tv, oadcast contt the web, and via mobile. i even use the web to get paid. with acceptpay from american express open, we now invoice advertisers and receive payments digitally. and i get paid on average three weeks faster. booming is never looking for a check in the mail. because it's already in my email.
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